Erez Levin spent years working in the guts of Google’s advertising technology business — the systems that decide what gets seen, what gets monetized, and what gets buried. He watched marketers chase quantity over quality, watched that same logic bleed into the wider internet, and eventually left to write and advocate full time. His focus now is restoring the moral taboos he believes society has let erode, using what he calls principled ostracism rather than the blunt, tribal instincts of cancel culture.
Wilk and Erez spend this conversation working through where that line actually sits — and why drawing it clearly, rather than avoiding the conversation altogether, may be one of the more overlooked forms of courageous citizenship.
Key Themes
● Bad incentives, not bad people. Erez argues that most of what looks like online cruelty isn’t driven by evil intent — it’s driven by systems, ad tech included, that reward engagement over honesty. He leans on Upton Sinclair’s line about salaries and understanding to make the point.
● Principled ostracism vs. cancel culture. Erez draws a sharp distinction: cancel culture punishes disagreement and rarely allows a way back. Principled ostracism applies real consequences only to a narrow, widely shared category — celebrating violence, overt hateful bigotry — and always leaves room for someone to apologize, change, and return.
● Norms can move, and have moved before. Erez has driven cultural change before, including helping normalize paternity leave at Google. He and Wilk talk through how norms around smoking, and how norms around the KKK operating openly, shifted once society stopped tolerating them.
● Consequences work faster than people expect. Erez points to two real examples — the public reaction after Charlie Kirk’s death, and a memo from investor Bill Ackman that led a group of Harvard students to retract their names from a petition within days — as evidence that clear social consequences change behavior almost immediately.
● Accountability without dehumanizing. Both Wilk and Erez return to the same idea: you can hold someone to a real standard without reducing them to their worst moment. The goal is always a way back, not permanent exile.
Takeaways
● The problem usually isn’t malice — it’s misaligned incentives, and understanding that changes how you respond to bad behavior.
● Real consequences and forgiveness aren’t opposites. The path back is what separates principled ostracism from cancel culture.
● Follow Erez’s writing on moral taboos and principled ostracism at elevin11.substack.com.
Learn more about and connect with Erez Levin
Erez Levin is an advertising technologist and advocate who spent years inside Google’s ad tech business before turning his focus to restoring society’s moral taboos against overt hateful bigotry. He writes about principled ostracism and incentive design at his Substack, Holding the Line, and works through Emet Advisory.
Website: elevin11.substack.com
X (Twitter): https://x.com/elevin11
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erezlevin/
______________________________________________________________
We’ve forgotten what it feels like to have a real conversation.
The week of August 10th, join AllSides for a live conversation about the American Dream — how we’re thinking about it and navigating the challenges.
Your insights will be anonymized and included in a report to help leaders better understand how people see this issue.
Sign up today at allsides.com/derate-hate
______________________________________________________________
The world is a better place if we are better people. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be!
Please follow the DTH podcast on:
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube, Substack
Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact
The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org
Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast!
*The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.
