What does it mean to disagree well? That question sits at the center of Michael Lee’s work. As director of the Civility Initiative at the College of Charleston and host of the podcast When We Disagree, Michael has spent decades studying how individuals and communities navigate conflict—and how to do it better.
In this episode of Derate the Hate, Wilk and Michael have a wide-ranging conversation about the skills, the mindset, and the nervous system work required to engage across difference. They talk about why the bridging space gets mischaracterized, what’s really behind conflict avoidance, and why apathy may be the biggest enemy of genuine connection.
Key Themes
Debate as a bridge-building tool: Michael traces his path from high school debate to civility work, arguing that debate—done well—is inherently dialogic and connective.
Nervous system and conflict: Fight, flight, freeze, and fawn aren’t just trauma responses. They show up every time we face disagreement, and recognizing them is step one to healthier conflict.
Conversation vs. complicity: A recurring cultural confusion—the idea that engaging with someone means endorsing their views—shuts down dialogue before it starts. Michael offers specific tools to move past it.
Stress as growth: A “de-stress for success” sign on a college campus bothered Michael for a reason. His counterpoint: we go to the gym to stress our muscles. Disagreement works the same way.
The perception gap: We consistently underestimate how much we have in common with people we disagree with. Starting from shared humanity changes the whole dynamic.
Practical Takeaways
Ask yourself: what’s my relational goal? Before engaging, knowing whether you’re trying to deepen a relationship or just protect yourself changes everything about how you show up.
Try calling in before calling out. A gentle “I wonder if you’re open to hearing how that lands for me” can quickly reveal whether a conversation is worth continuing.
Use reciprocity deliberately. Lead with curiosity, make concessions about your own uncertainty, and watch how the tone of a conversation shifts.
Start with sameness. Rather than cataloguing differences first, find the shared ground—shared humanity, shared values, shared experience—and build from there.
About the Guest
Michael J. Lee is a professor of communication and the director of the Civility Initiative at the College of Charleston. His research focuses on political identity in American politics. His first book, Creating Conservatism: Postwar Words that Made an American Movement, won five national book awards. His latest book is We Are Not One People: Separatism and Secession in American Politics Since 1776. He is also the host of When We Disagree, a podcast about the disagreements we can’t let go of.
Connect with Michael Lee
Organization: College of Charleston
Website: Civility Initiative
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michael-lee-35258814
Instagram: @whenwedisagree
The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be!
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*The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.
*For a full transcript of this conversation, visit www.DerateTheHate.com.
